X32 + X32 rack + S32 + IEM for tour, help please!

  1. #1 by Alex Cappa on 12-10-2018
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    X32 + X32 rack + S32 + IEM for tour, help please!

    Hi people! Thanks in advance for your attention!

    Im starting a national tour this next january in both venues and big festivals.
    5 piece band, all with IEM, want a dedicated mix (EQ, dynamics, FX) and there is no monitor engineer, just me as FOH.
    I bought X32 + X32 rack + S32 to meet all my needs and let the backliners/musicians to tweak their IEM mixes themselves without affecting my tweaks in the FOH desk, such as gain, EQ, fx, etc
    My question is about how to connect all the system, x32 --> s32 via cat5 thats easy but how I send a copy to the x32 rack for their IEM mix??
    Any help would be much appreciated !
  2. #2 by Craig Fowler on 12-10-2018
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    So the X32 is used for FOH, the X32Rack is used for monitors, and the S32 is used for IO, and you want a "copy" (of I assume the FOH mix) to be sent to the X32Rack so people can dial it into their monitors, is that correct?

    If so, you'd stage the FOH signals (eg LRM, a maximum of 6 of them,) in the Routing>out1-16\aux out\ultranet tabs. If 6 separate signals is too many to manage at the other end, you can downmix into a stereo\mono matrix if that makes things easier. Anyway, then you'd dump that block containing those staged signals into the AES50 stream leaving the X32 (Routing>AES50A\B tab, A\B depending on which socket on the X32 connects to the X32Rack.)

    Then on the X32Rack, you'd use the Routing>Home tab and set the AuxIn Remap to AES50A\B 1-6 (A\B depends on which AES50 socket on the X32Rack connects to the X32 @ FOH.) Now those FOH signals are on Aux1-6 on the monitor console, and can be dialled into anyone's IEM mix like any other channel.
  3. #3 by Alex Cappa on 12-10-2018
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    Thanks for the quick respone Craig!

    My plan is to have a copy of every input in the X32 rack for their monitor feed, at least 16 inputs, I wonder if I set the out on the FOH desk via ultranet, can I plugin into the cat5 input of the rack?
    I think ultranet is 16 I/O if Im not wrong.
    Thaniks a ton for your help!
  4. #4 by Craig Fowler on 12-10-2018
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    Ok, I've misunderstood.

    Normally in that scenario you'd connect mics>S32>X32Rack (monitor DSP, people would control their own IEMs with phones\tablets,)>X32 (FOH.) You'd send the mic signals from the S32 to the Rack for monitor mixing with discrete eq, compression etc, and pass a copy of those mic signals through the Rack to the FOH console so FOH can create the FOH mix with its own eq and compression, which then gets passed back to the monitor console\S32 to analogue outputs for FOH amps.

    Alternatively you could use the full size X32 as a monitor mixer if you wanted your ME to have faders, and you could use the X32Rack (controlled by tablet\computer) to mix FOH.

    What was your planned interconnectivity? That will determine how you need to set up the routing on each console.

    And no, ultranet won't help (at least the socket won't, the actual tab in the routing menu can be very useful for other things.) AES50 should have your needs covered: each console has 2x 48x48.
  5. #5 by Alex Cappa on 12-12-2018
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    So I could use:

    S32 AES50A --> X32 FOH
    S32 AES50B --> X32 MONITOR

    If thats right it will make my life much easier!!
  6. #6 by Alex Cappa on 12-12-2018
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    What Im afraid is if I raise the gain on the FOH it will raise on the monitor desk??
    Does x32 have gain trim, or analog/digital trim for this purpose, like yamaha cl5 does ?
    Thanks a lot!
  7. #7 by Craig Fowler on 12-12-2018
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    That setup can work, but there are some caveats:

    Only the console connected to the S32's A socket (the FOH console in your example) can be clock master. As such, it must always be on. Also, it means you can't use an X-Dante card in the monitor console.
    Only the console connected to the S32's A socket (the FOH console in your example) can control the S32's preamps. Any gain and +48V adjustments need to be made on the FOH console. If mid-gig the FOH engineer decides to adjust the gain on a channel, it'll mess up all the monitor mixes (though this can be somewhat mitigated by engaging gain splitting on the FOH console after the initial preamp gains are set.)
    Thirdly, only the console connected to the S32's A socket (the FOH console in your example) can output signals to the S32's XLR\AES-EBU\ADAT\Ultranet sockets. This means that all your monitor mixes will need to be output directly from the X32Rack's XLR\TRS outputs (unless you engage in some very, very creative routing and end up with monitor signals output on the S32 and FOH signals output on the Rack.) 5 stereo mixes means 10 (mono) outputs, the X32Rack has 14 of them, however the TRS sockets do have 5dB less headroom than the XLR sockets. This means that a hotter mix might be fine on an XLR socket, but could distort if output on a TRS socket, so if you're running hot signals you need to plan ahead which mixes are going to be output on which sockets. You've only got 8 XLR sockets (enough for 4x stereo IEMs,) so in a 5-piece someone is going to miss out.

    Now consider the alternative:

    FOH(B)>Rack(A), Rack(B)>S32(A)

    Basically this is FOH>Monitors>S32

    In this scenario either console can be clock master. Either console can use an X-Dante card.
    Either console can be set up to control the S32's preamps.
    Either console can output its signals to the S32's outputs: all mixes on XLR.
    It also means you can run one long cable and have both the Rack and FOH console at FOH (non-standard, but works if you don't have a ME sidestage and you're mixing monitors from FOH.) If you tried doing that with Console>S32>Console, you'd need 2 long ethernet runs from the stage.

    Both setups can work, but IMO the 2nd one (Console>Console>S32) allows for a lot more flexibility.
  8. #8 by Alex Cappa on 12-13-2018
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    One last question Craig!

    I just got the gear, its not even unpacked. Any recommendation on what to do other that update the firmware in the units?
    Dont know if I should do something else!
    Thanks a ton for your help!!!
  9. #9 by Craig Fowler on 12-13-2018
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    Ensure you've got the right ethernet cables (cat5e\6\7, STP, ethercons, conductivity between both barrels.)

    Once you've decided on your AES50 interconnectivity, download edit and start making scenes for each console.
  10. #10 by Alex Cappa on 3 Weeks Ago
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    For the ethernet cable I was thinking of these ones:

    Dont know if I would get better moving to 6e?
    Thanks a ton!