Problem with stereo drum mix to P16-M

  1. #1 by Raimond Stijnman on 11-29-2018
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    Problem with stereo drum mix to P16-M

    For a show Iím mixing the coming months Ií m confronted with the following issue.

    My FOH mixer is the M32 connected via AES50 to a DL32 stage box. All four musicians have a Behringer P16-M via Ultranet for their monitor/in-ear.

    What I would like to do is send a stereo drum mix to the first two channels of the Ultranet. To do this I linked two busses and configured them as SUB Groups so that I can determine which channels (with faderflip and the mute buttons) I assign to the stereo subgroup. I assigned the stereo subgroup to the first two ultranet channels and this works fine. So far so good.

    The only disadvantage with using subgroups is that I cannot make a separate drum mix towards the stereo bus/subgroup and the ultranet. I thought I could solve this by setting the two busses to pre-fade, and link them, but now I hear something really strange.

    I have six channels for the drums:
    1: Kick drum
    2: Snare drum
    3: Rack tom
    4: Floor tom
    5: Overhead Left.
    6: Overhead Right.

    With the stereo linked busses set to pre fade I hear the kick drum in my left ear, the snare drum in my right ear, the rack tom in my left ear the floor tom in my right ear and so on.

    Can anyone help me solving this issue? Iím probably doing something wrong but I really doní t know what.
  2. #2 by Gary Higgins on 11-30-2018
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    I would do away with the subgroup and use 2 linked buses where you can adjust each drum ch within the stereo field then assign the 2 buses to p16 ch's. I suspect its the p16 ch tap fighting with the mixer ch tap to a subgroup. Did you try linking p16 ch's on the P16M itself, I don't know if it would make a difference but it might.
  3. #3 by Raimond Stijnman on 11-30-2018
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    - Gary Higgins wrote View Post
    I would do away with the subgroup and use 2 linked buses where you can adjust each drum ch within the stereo field then assign the 2 buses to p16 ch's. I suspect its the p16 ch tap fighting with the mixer ch tap to a subgroup. Did you try linking p16 ch's on the P16M itself, I don't know if it would make a difference but it might.
    Hi Gary,

    In both situations I use two buses that are linked as a stereo pair. The buses have to be configured. I tried to configure them as Pre-Fader as well as Sub Group. This is called the Channel Sends Pre-configuration in the M32. The Sub Group config works but I cannot make a separate mix towards the bus and the P16-M. The Pre Fade config gives me the strange behavior. Channel 1 in my left ear, channel 2 in my right ear and so on.
    The P16-M mixers also have two channels linked were the drum mix comes in. Any ideas?

    Kind regards,

    Raimond
  4. #4 by Gary Higgins on 12-01-2018
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    - Raimond Stijnman wrote View Post
    Hi Gary,

    In both situations I use two buses that are linked as a stereo pair. The buses have to be configured. I tried to configure them as Pre-Fader as well as Sub Group. This is called the Channel Sends Pre-configuration in the M32. The Sub Group config works but I cannot make a separate mix towards the bus and the P16-M. The Pre Fade config gives me the strange behavior. Channel 1 in my left ear, channel 2 in my right ear and so on.
    The P16-M mixers also have two channels linked were the drum mix comes in. Any ideas?

    Kind regards,

    Raimond
    I'm not sure what you mean about 'the buses have to be configured' and 'make a separate mix towards the bus' I think it may be best to post your scene so we can have a look. There are a few things that could be happening, hard to say without seeing several details. You can't separately pan ch's sending as subgroup to a linked bus pair where as every other ch send option you can place the ch where you want to in the stereo field of that bus pair. Somewhere in there is the problem I think.
  5. #5 by Raimond Stijnman on 12-04-2018
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    Posts: 11
    - Gary Higgins wrote View Post
    I'm not sure what you mean about 'the buses have to be configured' and 'make a separate mix towards the bus' I think it may be best to post your scene so we can have a look. There are a few things that could be happening, hard to say without seeing several details. You can't separately pan ch's sending as subgroup to a linked bus pair where as every other ch send option you can place the ch where you want to in the stereo field of that bus pair. Somewhere in there is the problem I think.
    Gary,

    I cannot leave the option in the "Channel Sends Pre-configuration" of the busses empty. The choices I have are: "IN/LC, Pre EQ, Post EQ, Pre Fade, Post Fade and SubGroup".
    The best way to describe what I want to do is make a monitor mix for a musician with one wedge/monitor, but with two monitors/wedges.
    I normally configure the bus as Pre Fade and with selecting this bus and the fader flip button I can make a (separate from the FOH mix) mix to the bus and the wedge.
    When I do exactly the same thing with two linked busses I experience this behaviour.
    I've attached the scene I'm currently using. Hopefully you can have a look.
    Thanks.

    Raimond.
    Attached Files Attached Files
  6. #6 by Paul Vannatto on 12-04-2018
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    - Raimond Stijnman wrote View Post
    With the stereo linked busses set to pre fade I hear the kick drum in my left ear, the snare drum in my right ear, the rack tom in my left ear the floor tom in my right ear and so on.

    Can anyone help me solving this issue? Iím probably doing something wrong but I really doní t know what.
    Hi Raimond,

    The reason why this is happening is that by assigning the channel sends taps to subgroup, it automatically pans the odd/even channels to hard left/right. When you change the taps to pre fader, it maintains those pan settings. To correct that, go to the channel sends screen and adjust the pan (just below the sends fader and just above the mute) to center (or wherever you want that particular channel in the stereo field). Repeat for each channel being sent to that mixbus pair.

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  7. #7 by Gary Higgins on 12-04-2018
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    Somehow when setting these up, the pans of the linked buses and the pans of drum ch's to the subgroup or the ch pans to a non subgroup bus have been changed and never changed back. When you link 2 busses the busses get hard panned by default. In your scene the 2 drum buses are both set to center/mono you may or may not want that, I suspect not. Point is they are changed from hard pan to not panned. In the process (with X32-Edit anyway) of setting the bus pair as a subgroup the individual drum ch pans to busses disappears. If you then set the drum bus pair from subgroup back to say pre eq, all the ch pans show up again, they are all panned hard L, hard R, each odd drum ch panned hard L each even drum ch hard panned R, from 1-6. The linked bus pair has stayed at the mono setting though. I think if you go to each bus (9 and 10) and hard pan them again hard L and hard R the problem of certain ch's on 1 side and and others on the opposite will go away with regard to NON subgroup sends. Worth a try.

    EDIT2: What Paul said! Didn't see his post, sorry Paul. Those pans are extreme. It should be more like K center, S center, toms slightly L or R and maybe the overheads hard L or R...I think however without the buses also panned you wouldn't get stereo. Also with subgroups, ch pans adopt the pan setting of ch's to main L/R whereas any other bus config you can (should) set the ch pan where you like.

    Last edited by Gary Higgins; 12-05-2018 at 03:56 AM.
  8. #8 by Raimond Stijnman on 12-05-2018
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    Posts: 11
    Paul ,Gary,

    Thanks for the answers and explanations. My mixer is at a venue now for a couple of days but I will surely check this out tomorrow. If time allows me.
    Thanks again. Iím sure this will fix my problem

    Kind regards,

    Raimond