P16 volumes very low

  1. #1 by Jason Murphy on 07-02-2018
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    P16 volumes very low

    We are moving from analogue to digital and had a p16-I in place for the in ears.
    On the p16-I the were gain controls to give some boost to the volumes sent to the 16 channels on the p16m

    Since putting in an x32 compact in another room we have been trying to set things up as identical as possible but have noticed the in East volumes are very low.

    Is there a gain level for the p16m routing?

    At the moment we have had to raise the gain on each channel quite a bit to mix level then drop front of house to accommodate.

    Any suggestions, or is this a feature request we need?
  2. #2 by Paul Vannatto on 07-02-2018
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    Hi Jason,

    Welcome to the forum. We've been using 6 P16-M with our X32 at our church for over 5 years and there has never been a complaint of low levels. I would suggest you upload your scene file here for us to have a look at and better advise. Here are the instructions

    __________________________________________________ _______________________
    For additional help please refer to the X32 wiki pages for updated and current documentation about the X32.

    For official technical and warranty support for your product you should contact the support team through their CARE department. You can contact CARE by phone at (+1) 702-800-8290 for the US and Canada and (+44) 1562 732290 in Europe.

    You can also contact CARE via email at CARECREA@music-group.com. They strive to respond to emails within 24-48 hours during normal business hours, but please be patient if it takes longer due to the volume of emails they receive.


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  3. #3 by Jason Murphy on 07-02-2018
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    - Paul Vannatto wrote View Post
    Hi Jason,

    Welcome to the forum. We've been using 6 P16-M with our X32 at our church for over 5 years and there has never been a complaint of low levels. I would suggest you upload your scene file here for us to have a look at and better advise. Here are the instructions
    Ok that's good to know, sorry it will take me a few days as I have to get back to the site and grab the scenes. Will upload them as soon as I can.

    Thanks in advance.
  4. #4 by Allen Pendleton on 07-03-2018
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    They are not as loud if you are coming from avioms or any other system. They do fine for my personally but some folks just can't seem to get them loud enough. But you are correct they are not all that loud compared to the other vendors.
  5. #5 by Brett Kordich on 07-03-2018
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    There are 3 ways to turn up volume on the p16. The Master, each channel and the head phone. Make sure these are up before trouble shooting the mixer. What is the tap point of your p16 feed?
  6. #6 by Gary Higgins on 07-05-2018
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    I agree with Brett, everyone seems to forget the "Main" level (out of the 3 levels). The individual ch selects and the volume knob adjusts each one ch by ch. Then select the 'Main' button (middle row far left) and adjust it using the very same volume knob-that Main one is the likely culprit. Finally the output level, top right, for overall level. These can get VERY loud indeed, loud enough to seriously hurt your ears!
  7. #7 by Paul Vannatto on 07-05-2018
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    Also don't forget the limiter. If it is turned counter-clockwise, no matter how much you turn up the 3 different levels, it won't get that loud.

    __________________________________________________ _______________________
    For additional help please refer to the X32 wiki pages for updated and current documentation about the X32.

    For official technical and warranty support for your product you should contact the support team through their CARE department. You can contact CARE by phone at (+1) 702-800-8290 for the US and Canada and (+44) 1562 732290 in Europe.

    You can also contact CARE via email at CARECREA@music-group.com. They strive to respond to emails within 24-48 hours during normal business hours, but please be patient if it takes longer due to the volume of emails they receive.


    Paul Vannatto
    Volunteer Forum Community Moderator
  8. #8 by Gary Higgins on 07-06-2018
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    - Paul Vannatto wrote View Post
    Also don't forget the limiter. If it is turned counter-clockwise, no matter how much you turn up the 3 different levels, it won't get that loud.
    +1 to that!
  9. #9 by Jason Murphy on 07-10-2018
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    Posts: 7

    a bit more detail and a scene

    Ok, sorry about the delay in comms.


    So attached is our scene from the x32 compact.


    x32-compact-default.scn


    in relation to the setup,

    Example:
    standard Shure SM58 plugged in direct on the old desk would be set to 12 O'Clock on the gain, then the Direct Out sends the pre EQ level to the P16-I. (normally level DB gain on the P16i is fine.

    On the P16M we generally have setup:
    Output level set to 3 O'Clock
    Limiter set to 2:30
    Main volume to 75% (around dot 6)
    Channel level then depends on the singer (sometimes 5 dots, othertimes 7 dots)

    So we have been running this setup for around 3-4 years with no issues at all.
    Brilliant setup, and would highly recommend the setup to anyone who wants to keep their analogue desk !!!!


    So the issue is then when we introduced the X32, that the volumes of the channels are much lower (i know that there is a -18db level set as there isnt the same noise floor to deal with)

    But what this means is that we have had to up the gain from 12 O'Clock to around 230
    See the scene for example.
    There are 6 mics all setup the way i mentioned but their gain is huge to make the in ear levels about the same as they are used to on the old system.

    So to compensate we have dumped the speaker FOH volumes on the boxes from 1/2 to around a 1/4
    which then means that the sound isnt coming out as clear as it could be with the extra power.


    So my query is:
    Is there a way like on the P16 i to up the ultranet or P16 channel send gain so that FOH stays intact, and just the in ear volume increases at the send level?
  10. #10 by Paul Vannatto on 07-10-2018
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    - Jason Murphy wrote View Post
    So my query is:
    Is there a way like on the P16 i to up the ultranet or P16 channel send gain so that FOH stays intact, and just the in ear volume increases at the send level?
    The quick answer to your query is - not directly. If you do want separate gain levels for FOH and Ultranet feeds, you could duplicate those channels (using the same inputs). But enable the HA Gain Split (Setup, preamps screen). What that will do is provide separate digital trims for each channel strip. But it will also mean that you will have to set the actual gains on that Setup, preamps screen.

    But before you do that, there is a glaring problem with the Main LR feed on the Routing, Out 1-16 screen. Output 1 is assigned to Main L pre-EQ and Output 2 is assigned to Main R post-fader. That will throw your FOH out of whack. Change the Output 1 to post-fader.

    The position of the gain knob is relative. Not knowing what was the analog console and what 12:00 is in db, doesn't mean much. The gains on the vocals set at +35 to +38 is a bit high for SM58, but is very low for an SM7B. Again these levels are relative and are influenced by a number of factors.

    I did notice that the sources of channels 1-16 are the local XLR (back of the X32). Are you running an analog snake from the stage to the console? I also noticed that the 3rd and 4th input banks are set to AES50 A17-24 and A25-32. Do you also have a stagebox (S16 or SD16)? If so, you need to change this to AES50 A1-8 and A9-16 to get any input signals.

    __________________________________________________ _______________________
    For additional help please refer to the X32 wiki pages for updated and current documentation about the X32.

    For official technical and warranty support for your product you should contact the support team through their CARE department. You can contact CARE by phone at (+1) 702-800-8290 for the US and Canada and (+44) 1562 732290 in Europe.

    You can also contact CARE via email at CARECREA@music-group.com. They strive to respond to emails within 24-48 hours during normal business hours, but please be patient if it takes longer due to the volume of emails they receive.


    Paul Vannatto
    Volunteer Forum Community Moderator