X32 cores/S32 for monitors and X32 compactw/S16 for FOH

  1. #1 by Yves Bellemare on 06-13-2018
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    Posts: 9

    X32 cores/S32 for monitors and X32 compactw/S16 for FOH

    Hi everyone, it's my first post on this forum. Here's our situation :

    Our gear :

    - The band : X32 core with S32 stage box

    Usage :


    • mixing our 6 piece band in our rehersing and production room
    • 12 bus for 6 stereo in ear monitoring
    • 2 bus for 1 stereo send to looper
    • 2 bus for 2 effect sends


    - Our soundman : X32 compact with S16 stage box

    Our needs :


    • keeping our band setup for our monitoring during a concert
    • being able to feed our soundman's setup for the FOH
    • Him being able to feed 2 back vocalists with both their own stereo monitor mix
    • Allowing him to route his talkback thru the whole system
    • So, as you can see, we need more than 16 busses-XLR outputs on stage


    I've made some research about it, found quite a few threads on this forum and went thru most of the relevant webinars and other youtube videos.

    Here's what I came up with :

    Connections :


    • S32 AES50 A with X32 compact (FOH) AES50 A
    • S32 AES50 B with X32 Core (monitors) AES50 A


    Settings :

    X32 compact :

    - Global page : Internal sync

    - Routing :


    • In Home page : Inputs 1 to 32 are AES50 A 1 to 32
    • In out 1-16 page : Analog out 1 to 16 are mix bus 1 to 16
    • In AES50 A page : - AES50 A outs 1 to 16 are out 1 to 16

    - AES50 A outs 17 to 48 are AES50A ins ??1 to 32???
  2. #2 by Paul Vannatto on 06-13-2018
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    Posts: 10,433
    Hi Yves,

    Welcome to the forum. Thanks for your detailed explanation of your setup and what you want to accomplish. Unfortunately the setup using both AES50 ports of the S32 to connect both consoles is not going to allow you to transfer signals between consoles (such as talkback, etc.). This is due to the internal bank switching in the S32.

    I would recommend you use the following interconnectivity mapping
    X32 Compact [B] <-> [A] X32 Core [B] <-> [A] S32 [B] <-> [A] S16 (mode 3, Out+16)

    This mapping allows all signals in both directions of AES50 to be accessible to both consoles.

    X32 Core Setup
    --------------------

    To receive inputs from the S32
    Routing, Inputs (home) screen
    * Inputs 1-8 -> AES50 B1-8
    * Inputs 9-16 -> AES50 B9-16
    * Inputs 17-24 -> AES50 B17-24
    * Inputs 25-32 -> AES50 B25-32

    To transfer the inputs from the S32 and S16 (if needed) to the Compact
    Routing, AES50-A screen
    * Outputs 1-8 -> AES50 B1-8
    * Outputs 9-16 -> AES50 B9-16
    * Outputs 17-24 -> AES50 B17-24

    To transfer the Compact outputs (FOH speakers, 2 back vocalist monitors) to S16 outputs
    Routing, AES50-B screen
    * Outputs 17-24 -> AES50 A17-24 (to be explained later)

    To transfer the talkback from Compact to Core, using the Aux In Remap
    Routing, Inputs (or home) screen
    * Aux In Remap -> AES50 A1-2 (to be explained later)

    To send the Talkback to the various IEM mixes, send the Aux 1 to the various mixbuses.

    X32 Compact setup
    --------------------------

    To receive inputs from the S32
    Routing, Inputs (home) screen
    * Inputs 1-8 -> AES50 B1-8
    * Inputs 9-16 -> AES50 B9-16
    * Inputs 17-24 -> AES50 B17-24
    * Inputs 25-32 -> AES50 B25-32

    To setup the talkback
    * Assign the talkback(s) to a mixbus (eg mixbus 12)
    * Assign that mixbus (eg mixbus 12) to an Aux In channel (eg Aux In 6)
    * Send this Aux (6) signal to the 2 vocal backup mixbus pairs.
    * Assign this mixbus (mixbus 12) to Routing, Out 1-16, Output 01 (this will be sent down AES50-B, bank 1)

    To setup back vocalist monitors (eg mixbuses 1/2, 3/4)
    Routing, Out 1-16 screen
    * Output 09 -> Mixbus 1 (post fader)
    * Output 10 -> Mixbus 2 (post fader)
    * Output 11 -> Mixbus 3 (post fader)
    * Output 12 -> Mixbus 4 (post fader)

    Routing, AES50-B1-8
    * Outputs 1-8 -> Out 1-8 (talkback on first output)
    * Outputs 9-16 (doesn't matter)
    * Outputs 17-24 -> Out 9-16 (back vocalist monitors to S16 outputs)

    Last edited by Paul Vannatto; 07-04-2018 at 11:36 AM.
    __________________________________________________ _______________________
    For additional help please refer to the X32 wiki pages for updated and current documentation about the X32.

    For official technical and warranty support for your product you should contact the support team through their CARE department. You can contact CARE by phone at (+1) 702-800-8290 for the US and Canada and (+44) 1562 732290 in Europe.

    You can also contact CARE via email at CARECREA@music-group.com. They strive to respond to emails within 24-48 hours during normal business hours, but please be patient if it takes longer due to the volume of emails they receive.


    Paul Vannatto
    Volunteer Forum Community Moderator
  3. #3 by Yves Bellemare on 06-14-2018
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    Posts: 9
    Thanks Paul!

    As soon as my soundman's available, I'll bring my gear to his studio and we'll make tests with your instructions.

    Yves
  4. #4 by Yves Bellemare on 07-04-2018
    Yves Bellemare's Avatar
    Posts: 9

    X32 cores/S32 for monitors and X32 compactw/S16 for FOH

    Hi,

    So we could finally get together, with my soundman, to connect our mixers together and, although we weren't sure if we understood all the settings you listed, it ended up working!

    I would have appreciated understanding it all before coming back with a report, but there are things I have to understand more deeply. Part of it I understand; other part I don't and the some I'm not sure if I do!!

    So still a little cleaning to do in my head...

    I'll try to wrap some questions and come back with them.

    Thanks again for this precious support!

    Yves
  5. #5 by Paul Vannatto on 07-04-2018
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    Posts: 10,433
    Hi Yves,

    Thanks for reporting back that it worked for you. Feel free to ask questions about the setup. I had to do the same until I finally got it

    __________________________________________________ _______________________
    For additional help please refer to the X32 wiki pages for updated and current documentation about the X32.

    For official technical and warranty support for your product you should contact the support team through their CARE department. You can contact CARE by phone at (+1) 702-800-8290 for the US and Canada and (+44) 1562 732290 in Europe.

    You can also contact CARE via email at CARECREA@music-group.com. They strive to respond to emails within 24-48 hours during normal business hours, but please be patient if it takes longer due to the volume of emails they receive.


    Paul Vannatto
    Volunteer Forum Community Moderator
  6. #6 by Yves Bellemare on 07-04-2018
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    Posts: 9
    Ok, if you don't mind, I'll go one item at the time.

    The first one:

    - Paul Vannatto wrote View Post
    X32 Core Setup
    --------------------

    To transfer the inputs from the S32 and S16 (if needed) to the Compact
    Routing, AES50-A screen
    * Outputs 1-8 -> AES50 B1-8
    * Outputs 9-16 -> AES50 B9-16
    * Outputs 17-24 -> AES50 B17-24
    It would seem to me that if we're talking about the inputs, we should be tranfering 48 of them. Did you actually mean "to transfer the outputs from the S32..." ?
  7. #7 by Paul Vannatto on 07-04-2018
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    Posts: 10,433
    Hi Yves,

    Initially when I reread my initial instructions, I agreed with you, that it was an error. Then I realized that it was transferring the inputs of the S32 and S16 through the X32 Core to the X32 Compact.

    __________________________________________________ _______________________
    For additional help please refer to the X32 wiki pages for updated and current documentation about the X32.

    For official technical and warranty support for your product you should contact the support team through their CARE department. You can contact CARE by phone at (+1) 702-800-8290 for the US and Canada and (+44) 1562 732290 in Europe.

    You can also contact CARE via email at CARECREA@music-group.com. They strive to respond to emails within 24-48 hours during normal business hours, but please be patient if it takes longer due to the volume of emails they receive.


    Paul Vannatto
    Volunteer Forum Community Moderator
  8. #8 by Yves Bellemare on 07-04-2018
    Yves Bellemare's Avatar
    Posts: 9
    Hi Paul,

    This is where I feel I don't understand the flow of information through AES:

    I see, in your explanation, 48 inputs being carried through a setting of 24 outputs.

    There must be something I don't get (wich is defenitally not the first time in my life! )
  9. #9 by Paul Vannatto on 07-04-2018
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    Posts: 10,433
    - Yves Bellemare wrote View Post
    This is where I feel I don't understand the flow of information through AES:
    Think of the AES50 as a 48 lane freeway in both directions (LA could use one of these) in sections of 8 lanes each. Signals can go in both directions to and from the X32 and are assigned in banks of 8.

    It took me awhile and after asking a lot of questions it finally clicked (light went on).
    The easiest way to understand what is going on is to visualize yourself inside one of the consoles. For example, using that explanation that you don't understand, place your mind inside the X32 Core. What do you see?
    * The AES50 A port is connected to the X32 Compact.
    * The AES50 B port is connected to the 2 stageboxes (S32 and S16).
    You want to transfer the stagebox inputs (24 total) to the Compact. To do that, assign the first 3 banks of 8 (don't worry about the other 3 banks) from the B port (stageboxes) to the first 3 banks of 8 to the AES50 A (Compact).

    Hope that explanation helps you visualize it better.

    __________________________________________________ _______________________
    For additional help please refer to the X32 wiki pages for updated and current documentation about the X32.

    For official technical and warranty support for your product you should contact the support team through their CARE department. You can contact CARE by phone at (+1) 702-800-8290 for the US and Canada and (+44) 1562 732290 in Europe.

    You can also contact CARE via email at CARECREA@music-group.com. They strive to respond to emails within 24-48 hours during normal business hours, but please be patient if it takes longer due to the volume of emails they receive.


    Paul Vannatto
    Volunteer Forum Community Moderator
  10. #10 by Yves Bellemare on 07-05-2018
    Yves Bellemare's Avatar
    Posts: 9
    Hi Paul,

    Thanks for the way to see from inside the console; it does help!

    Please allow me to come back on your last post :

    - Paul Vannatto wrote View Post
    You want to transfer the stagebox inputs (24 total)
    I wouldn't want to insist, 'cause it's surely something I don't understand the right way yet, but if I look at both S32 an S16 stageboxes input sections, I see a total of 48 XLR inputs (32+16); It's the outputs that are at a total of 24 (16+8)

    So, in

    - Paul Vannatto wrote View Post
    Routing, AES50-A screen
    * Outputs 1-8 -> AES50 B1-8
    * Outputs 9-16 -> AES50 B9-16
    * Outputs 17-24 -> AES50 B17-24
    I more like have the feeling that, with this setting, I'm allowing the Compact to send its outputs 9-16 (on AES50-B 17-24) to the S16 8 XLR outputs (shifted into 17-24 on the S16 panel) and, on the other hand, sending its talkback to the Core on AES50-B 1-8 (1 and 2 being remapped on the Core aux ins 1 and 2)

    Does that make any sense?

    If not it's ok. I agree that time and more questions will do it! And I do have some other questions!

    Last edited by Yves Bellemare; 07-05-2018 at 06:06 PM.