Behringer x2222usb balanced out questions

  1. #1 by Mark Gilbert on 05-02-2018
    Mark Gilbert's Avatar
    Posts: 4

    Behringer x2222usb balanced out questions

    Hi there. I have a Behringer xenyx x2222usb. I have connected it to my power amplifier, through its control out, using 2 TS cables.
    The drawback to that, is that if I have the headphones plugged in, sound comes from both the headphones and the hifi speakers. So, everytime I need to listen to music from my hifi, I have to unplug the headphones(otherwise i run the risk of overdriving them, plus it is annoying listening to the sound of the headphones, when i dont wear them).
    Wanting to address that, I was thinking to plug the Ts cables to the mains out instead.
    But I am not sure if this is clever. The mains out, is “electronically balanced”. I don’t know exactly what that means.
    I have read in some other forums that connecting balanced to unbalanced with ts cable will result in either
    • Lowering the sound by 6db
    • Short circuiting the balanced output, if the balanced output is electronically balanced
    Can someone tell me if there is some other way I would bypass the headphones if I listen to the hifi, or if I could plug the ts cables in other, more convenient, ouput? But from what I read only the control room outputs are unbalanced...

    Instead, if i use a TRS cable, if i connect the amplifier to the console through the mains out, will all be fine? will the power be lowered by db or not, since the mains out is electronically balanced?
    ans lastly, if i make a trs cable, which is better, to have the ground together with the negative signal, or should the negative signal be "floating"? Thank you
  2. #2 by Paul Vannatto on 05-02-2018
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    Posts: 10,436
    Hi Mark,

    Welcome to the forum. You can safely plug TS plugs into a TRS electronically balanced jack with no issues. So I would suggest you use the Main out jacks to the amplifier. That said, if your amp has XLR inputs, why not use mic cable (XLR-M to XLR-F) between the mixer and the amp?

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  3. #3 by Mark Gilbert on 05-02-2018
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    Posts: 4
    Thank you Paul.

    in this forum
    i read this
    Electronically-balanced (or “active-balanced”) outputs come in a several flavors. Each of the two output legs carries an audio signal that’s referenced to ground, identical in voltage but opposite in polarity. When the voltage on pin 2 is +1 volt with respect to pin 1 (ground), the voltage on pin 3 will be -1 volt. If you measure between pins 2 and 3 with a voltmeter, you’ll see 2 volts, and that’s the voltage that a differential input sees.

    Balanced output with inverting and non-inverting op-amps.Balanced output with inverting and non-inverting op-amps.
    There are two common (read: “cheapest”) circuits used for active-balanced outputs. One adds a unity-gain inverting operational amplifier (op-amp) after the non-inverted output to get the inverted output. In another configuration illustrated here, two op-amps—one configured as a non-inverting amplifier, the other wired in the inverting configuration—are fed the same signal. This is the type of output configuration used for the Main outputs of PreSonus® StudioLive™ mixers.

    Op-amps sometimes can become “unhappy” when their outputs are shorted, so simply tying pin 3 to ground, while electrically valid, isn’t a good way to connect this type of balanced output to an unbalanced input. It might work fine, but in the worst cases, the shorted-out op-amp could be damaged; the short circuit could be reflected back to the non-inverted output, causing the desired signal to distort; or the grounded output stage could start oscillating, usually at a frequency well above the audible range.

    The proper way to connect this type of active-balanced output to an unbalanced input is to simply leave pin 3 disconnected. Signal voltage appears between pins 1 and 2, which is just what our unbalanced input wants. This is another instance where you’ll probably need to modify or custom-build a cable if the output is on an XLR connector.

    If you have this type of balanced output on a TRS jack, you can usually use a TRS-TRS cable to connect it to an unbalanced input. A TS (unbalanced) jack at the input makes no connection to the plug’s ring, which will leave it floating, as we desire. However, some manufacturers thoughtfully use a TRS jack for an unbalanced input, wiring the jack’s ring contact to ground. This assures that you’ll get signal between the unbalanced input and ground when using TRS-TRS cable to make the connection from a balanced output. It works fine for certain types of balanced outputs, like our friend the transformer, but since it grounds the inverted output, it can be a problem for the simple inverting/non-inverting op-amp configuration.
    from what i read, not all "electronically balanced" inputs are constructed the same way.
    That article mentions that there is possibillity of damage to the op amp of the input. unfortunately in the Behringer manual, there is no info on what exactly"electronically balanced inputs mean.
    if you are sure that there is no danger i can make a test.
    is there a drawback i should know about if i use the mains out of the console instead of the "console out" jacks?
    is there any advantage if u make a trs cable instaead of my ts, to connect mains out to my amplifier?
    As to your last question, my power amp, a Sansui au 717, has only rca inputs...
    Thank you very much for your answer