Some problem with M32R +DL153+DL151

  1. #1 by Pan Kai En on 05-18-2016
    Pan Kai En's Avatar
    Posts: 6

    Some problem with M32R +DL153+DL151

    M32R Aes50a to DL151-1

    M32R aes50B to DL153-1

    M32R sync as internal

    All Dl 150 box sync as external

    It all worked at first, but after 3-4 hours, I lost control over the Gain & 48v control of DL151 & DL153

    I could only control trim

    After turning DL 151 and DL 153 on and off again, I regained control, but only for two or three hours and lost it again (gain and 48v)

    Everything else works perfectly.

    By the way, I was using the latest firmware on these two stage boxes and mixer.

    Please help, thanks!
  2. #2 by Gary Higgins on 05-19-2016
    Gary Higgins's Avatar
    Posts: 2,786
    M32 per ch (config page) shows gain at first, then shows trim 3 hrs later? What does the setup/preamps page look like each time? I'm not sure the 150 series act like a DL16 or S16 but is it possible gain split is enabled on the M32? That would make per ch gains be trim controls. Do you have 'green' sync everywhere (on your M32 screen top right) to start then not later or does it remain visually in sync and just not work? It sounds like an intermittent sync issue of some sort. If that were true you would see all green to start then at some point one or both aes50 lines would turn red. Have you tried different aes50 cables, and are they shielded? Lots of sync issues with ESD and non shielded cables... On the setup/preamps page you should see an image for all preamp devices, do the 150's have an image represented there when aes50a or b is selected on the left? That would indicate all is in sync at least to start with. Can you replicate the issue with just one of your external units. Can they both be cascaded on one aes50 line? If so do they still lose sync in 3-4 hrs?
  3. #3 by Pan Kai En on 05-19-2016
    Pan Kai En's Avatar
    Posts: 6
    Thx for reply

    Sync all good , green light

    DL 150 &153 still pass audio (in&out) to M32R and sounds fine

    Just lose control to Gain & 48V

    All shield Cable

    Same problems happened when I use those stage box with X32 in another show.
  4. #4 by Gary Higgins on 05-20-2016
    Gary Higgins's Avatar
    Posts: 2,786
    - Pan Kai En wrote View Post
    Thx for reply

    Sync all good , green light

    DL 150 &153 still pass audio (in&out) to M32R and sounds fine

    Just lose control to Gain & 48V

    All shield Cable

    Same problems happened when I use those stage box with X32 in another show.
    I dont know if these boxes act like the S16/DL16 BUT with them, they, once connected via aes50, are seen by the X/M32 with a gain control per ch on the ch config page (and by view button on the mixer). If you connect another X/M32 via aes50 however the ch gain controls become trim controls, not gain. Local M32 ch's would still have a gain control (we are talking aes50 input ch's only here). I wonder if the 150's stage boxes behave like another mixer would, meaning the only way to adjust gain and phantom would be on the setup/preamp page. That same trim control BTW can be made to always be shown on the mixer by enabling headlamp gain split on the setup/preamp page. Can you confirm that is not set on your M32? Can you confirm you see a gain control for the 150's ch's and then later see a trim for the exact same ch's from the exact SAME mixer screen? What I'm getting at here is is it possible you were looking at a local M32 ch at one time and then at an aes50 150 ch the next or looking from the config page once and from the preamp page the next? The fact that you still get sound but can't control the gain or 48v seems like maybe you are still with control but only can get to it on the setup/preamp page. I wish I had either box, I would try to replicate the issue. Could be a glitch in the new firmware as I believe recognition of the midas stage boxes was one of the "fixes"
  5. #5 by Mike Hough on 06-14-2016
    Mike Hough's Avatar
    Posts: 2
    Do you have any networking connected to your console? A wireless router or anything connected I have found will cause issues when using aes50 ports, especially an Apple router. I had almost an identical issue with an M32, M32-r, DL151 and DL154 boxes. End setup that worked was... shielded cat5E direct from stage box connector to console (no patch or thru connections), each console with it's own wireless router connected to the console only with no other devices on network other than what is needed for control.

    Unfortunately, each DL15... box needs its own "home run" aes50 cable, you cannot daisy-chain boxes. That being said, with a box connected to each aes50 port on the console, the M32 preamp page in the setup menu only allows remote control of either aes50A or aes50B, not both, which makes it very clumsy to manage the preamp gains in the DL boxes.

    Ultimately, my fix was, yard sale the DL151 & DL154 and purchase a DL32 box and never looked back.
  6. #6 by Paul Vannatto on 06-14-2016
    Paul Vannatto's Avatar
    Posts: 10,266
    Hi Mike,

    Welcome to the forum

    Do you have any networking connected to your console? A wireless router or anything connected I have found will cause issues when using aes50 ports, especially an Apple router. I had almost an identical issue with an M32, M32-r, DL151 and DL154 boxes. End setup that worked was... shielded cat5E direct from stage box connector to console (no patch or thru connections), each console with it's own wireless router connected to the console only with no other devices on network other than what is needed for control.
    The AES50 protocol only uses the first layer of the ethernet protocol, therefore is not networkable. We've known that here for 3+ years.

    ...with a box connected to each aes50 port on the console, the M32 preamp page in the setup menu only allows remote control of either aes50A or aes50B, not both, which makes it very clumsy to manage the preamp gains in the DL boxes.
    The M32 uses the same engine as the X32. Both A and B port of the AES50 preamps allow remote control, using either the channel gain control or the Setup, preamps screen (depending on how the console is setup). How were you trying to control the preamps?

    __________________________________________________ _______________________
    For additional help please refer to the X32 wiki pages for updated and current documentation about the X32.

    For official technical and warranty support for your product you should contact the support team through their CARE department. You can contact CARE by phone at (+1) 702-800-8290 for the US and Canada and (+44) 1562 732290 in Europe.

    You can also contact CARE via email at CARECREA@music-group.com. They strive to respond to emails within 24-48 hours during normal business hours, but please be patient if it takes longer due to the volume of emails they receive.


    Paul Vannatto
    Volunteer Forum Community Moderator
  7. #7 by Mike Hough on 06-14-2016
    Mike Hough's Avatar
    Posts: 2
    - Paul Vannatto wrote View Post
    Hi Mike,
    The AES50 protocol only uses the first layer of the ethernet protocol, therefore is not networkable. We've known that here for 3+ years.
    Yes, I know the AES50 is not networkable. I was talking the ethernet port on the console. I was instructed from a guy a Midas Support that some networking devices can cause issues with the AES50 when connected to the ethernet on the console, especially Apple wireless routers. Basically, he told me that if you need to connect an iPad or something to control the console, the console needs to be on its own wireless access point (preferably not apple). I do know, when I removed all networking devices from the ethernet port on the console, problems went away.

    Also, using the HA Remote in the preamp setup page, it only allows you to select port A or port B, not both at the same time. So, to have preamp gain control on the gain knob of the channel strip, you can only have it for the box connected to port A or port B, not both. Yes, you can control them from the setup/preamp page, but, it is clumsy when running a festival and you have very limited time to soundcheck the next act. Just my preference maybe...
  8. #8 by Ivan Barbari on 09-13-2017
    Ivan Barbari's Avatar
    Posts: 2

    Beta firmware for M32 series whit DL 251/153/151...

    Hi to everyone!
    About loosing Phantom/Gain problems whit DL pro series, that made me crazy...

    I got from careente@music-group.com the Beta firmware for Midas M32 series:
    dcp_corefs_3.07.2.update

    It seems this firmware solves Phantom/Gain problems.
    I didn't check M32-DL153 for long period yet, i will do it soon and I'll let you know the results.

    You must email to: careente@music-group.com
    so that they can limit its availability until the official version replaces it,
    it says the text whit the update.

    Ivan Barbari
    ivanbarbari@gmail.com
  9. #9 by Allen Pendleton on 10-31-2017
    Allen Pendleton's Avatar
    Posts: 84
    Has this issue been fixed yet or is it still an issue for the m32/x32 with DL153. I was looking at purchasing 2 DL153 units but after seeing this issue I'm not sure unless there is a fix for it. Anyone know?
  10. #10 by Pan Kai En on 11-08-2017
    Pan Kai En's Avatar
    Posts: 6
    Nope

    My setup:

    2 x DL153+ M32R